Talk:Michaels (CTU)
Lines? Does Michaels have any lines?--Sampson789 (talk) 17:38, July 30, 2014 (UTC) :In 5x08, he said "Yes sir" after Curtis asked him to be in charge of the scene. Likely dubbed by ADR guys, but I think we can count it as his line. Don't know about other episodes. --William (talk) 12:25, June 15, 2015 (UTC) Day 5 The description of Michaels' involvement in Day 5 doesn't match his appearances. It talks about him helping evacuate and rescue from the Sunrise Hills Mall, which would place him in Day 5: 2:00pm-3:00pm; however, he is not currently listed as appearing in that episode. Instead he is currently listed as appearing in Day 5: 1:00pm-2:00pm. Where does he appear in that episode?--Sampson789 (talk) 06:35, October 18, 2014 (UTC) :He definitely appeared in 5x08, and at least I didn't spot him in 5x07. --William (talk) 12:20, June 15, 2015 (UTC) Different Michaels * First, I just want to confirm that did the Michaels played by Greg Hutto really appeared in ? The appearance table lists that Greg Hutto played Michaels in , however I did not see him. That episode guide states that Michaels was the one who stayed with Dina when Tony rushed to help Jack, but after checking the episode, that guy is obviously not Hutto. File:4x21 Agent1.jpg|Agent 1 File:4x21 Agent2.jpg|Agent 2 File:4x21 Agent3.jpg|Agent 3 File:4x21 Agent4.jpg|Agent 4 File:4x21 Michaels.jpg|Michaels the sniper * Agents 3 and 4 arrived at the factory with Jack and Curtis in the same vehicle and were present when Curtis gave All teams go. They were still with them when Michaels killed the sentry and followed them to the factory entrance but didn't go in with them (probably just stayed at the door). Instead, agents 1 and 2 stormed into the factory and assisted in the cornering of Marwan. So the Michaels appeared in the episode (see above) didn't appear to be wearing tactical suits, and didn't look like Hutto. My conclusion is **Only 4 agents (Michaels included) went to the factory besides Jack and Curtis. And Michaels is either agents 1 or 2, since if Michaels was still alive and still guarding the perimeter on the roof, he would have spotted the terrorists or at least provided covering fire for Jack and Curtis in the shootout. But in the actual episode, nothing happened besides J&C getting pinned down. So it's plausible that after sniping the sentry, Michaels got down to the ground and went into the factory. That explains why agents 1 and 2's arriving late inside the factory. **Or there was a fifth agent Michaels. That explains why Curtis gave ALL TEAMS go and how could he do so. In this case, Michaels was killed by terrorists in a stealth way before Jack left the factory and got ambushed. Either way, since the Michaels played by Hutto is still kicking ass in season 5 and 6, I think we should create a new page for Michaels (day 4) or whatever suitable title for him, just like we create separate pages for Wong and Jim Wong, and change his status to deceased. William (talk) 13:45, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :I'm afraid I don't have proper access to this episode right now, so I'm a little hazy on the details - if your second possibility happened, ie Michaels was a fifth agent at the factory, could you go through why that means he had to have been killed at some point? :I'm pretty sure Agent 3 is Witt, Agent 4 could possibly be Stokes (CTU) (tho I'm unsure) and for some reason I have it in my head that Agent 2 is played by Scott Wilder, tho again am unsure--Acer4666 (talk) 14:36, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::Just like Scott the sniper? But you remind me that, if Michaels was the fifth agent, after the ambush Jack would have asked his status or called an ambulance, but they went straight back to CTU. Didn't that just prove that my first possibility is right? ::All four roles are stunt roles, and all four agents are dead. I think agent 3 could be Bob McGovern, whom had been listed under that episode's stunts section and got a similar facial resemblance imo. Can't get good pics for agents 3 and 4 since most of the time they were outside the factory. --William (talk) 15:12, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::I am confused by what you're saying. Why do you say Michaels has to be deceased? Because Jack didn't ask his status?--Acer4666 (talk) 15:15, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::::Are you suggesting that he was knocked out? If he was alive, was he just staying on that roof and watching his fellow agents getting killed and pinned down? --William (talk) 15:20, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::You're referring to the ambush 15 minutes later, in which time Michaels could have taken up a different position on the other side of the factory, or gone back to CTU, or any number of explanations that don't involve him dying--Acer4666 (talk) 15:23, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::I didn't think of that, but it's not likely since he was conducting a mission and he was in the middle of it. Would Jerald Vincent's character just left the scene after popping Laurence Todd Rosenthal? Unlikely. --William (talk) 15:33, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :But there's no certainty in any of it, making it speculation. Note also that the area that CTU entered the factory (where Michaels was on the roof) was filmed at a completely different location to where they exited and got ambushed, so if Michaels remained on the roof covering the first area, he wouldn't have seen the ambush which took place in a different area.--Acer4666 (talk) 15:36, June 11, 2015 (UTC) Even if they changed the filming place, they were meant to be the same place iu, right? Note that the building where Michaels was hiding on the roof was next to the place where Jack parked the SUV, which means he would have seen all of it. --William (talk) 15:44, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :Same building, but clearly it's not the same part of the building (as they look entirely different). SUV's can change places in the 15 minute gap we didn't see. Also, we don't see Michaels during the shootout but what's to say he wasn't shooting back at the terrorists? The camera just focusses on Jack and Curtis. But besides all this, you can't say for certain Michaels is dead. This is all speculation!--Acer4666 (talk) 15:47, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::They look entirely different because filming places had been changed but as the SUVs were still there it means it's still the same section of the area and why would they changed the parking places while interrogating Marwan? The camera focused on Jack, Curtis, two terrorists shooting at them, third terrorist getting in the SUV holding Marwan, Jack and Curtis trying to shoot at the 2 terrorists and terrorists ducked, third terrorist driving away, and that's all. ::Terrorists weren't getting shot down, Jack didn't ask for Michaels' backup. Michaels was definitely not there. --William (talk) 16:00, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::William you know full well this is not enough certainty to change this guy's status. They could easily change parking places to get the vehicles closer to Marwan so he doesn't have to walk as far. Michaels could have switched location, or gone back to CTU ( you said yourself unlikely, not impossible). Just because the camera doesn't show him doesn't mean he wasn't there shooting. Or he was knocked out as you said. Or tonnes of other explanations. Why are you persisting with this? There is no certainty!--Acer4666 (talk) 16:03, June 11, 2015 (UTC) ::OK I checked the episode. After the ambush, Curtis specifically radios the "perimeter teams" about Marwan's escape. Previously Jack has "prepped a team" to scan through the building. There are loads more agents there than the 4/5 we see--Acer4666 (talk) 16:19, June 11, 2015 (UTC) :::Since there are countless agents and until we have a photo of what Greg Hutto looks like in this episode, I'm going to have to say "nay" to the idea that there's a different Michaels despite it being a common name. Agent 3 definitely might be one of the McGoverns since it's too wide to be Rick Avery's or Pete Walsh's. Filming locations are irrelevant unless we're trying to figure out where the locations themselves were set as this is in-universe. What's truly unknown for now isn't worth getting upset about unless we're getting nitpicky about how clearly mentioned a recurring character's last seen appearance was.--Gunman6 (talk) 09:32, June 12, 2015 (UTC) :I'm pretty positive Agent 3 is Pete Walsh (as already noted on the Witt page when I made my idents of him throughout the series). Agents 1 & 2 are stunt roles as they get blown up by the explosion, but agents 3 & 4 are only seen entering at filming location #1 (Lassen Street) and are not stunt roles (the other agents blown up by the bomb are different actors)--Acer4666 (talk) 21:44, June 14, 2015 (UTC) :No fair claiming anything is or isn't a stunt role as that is speculation and stuntmen and background actors will be used interchangeably based on their physical appearances. You don't have to be just a person simulating being blown up to be a stuntman. David Kilde let me know that off from square one.--Gunman6 (talk) 21:56, June 14, 2015 (UTC) ::William was the one who said "all four are stunt roles" because I believe he mistakenly thought all four were the people involved in the explosion stunt. I was correcting that. I wasn't saying it wasn't played by a stunt performer, only that it was not, as William claimed, a "stunt role" because the actor didn't perform any stunts (only running into a building). Regardless of any of that, I am sure the guy is Pete Walsh, cos it looks just like him--Acer4666 (talk) 22:08, June 14, 2015 (UTC) :::Actually I just don't want to argue with this anymore. I probably just being bloodthirsty rather than objective, so I think we can come to a compromise and change his status to unknown. But still, do you agree upon creating another Michaels page? If so how do you disambiguate him with the Michaels here? :::And when exactly did the "Jack has 'prepped a team' to scan through the building" scene happen? I thought the first line Jack said at the factory was "put Michaels in play". :::The four were indeed stunt roles, as four of them were all shot to the ground in 4x22. Note that agents 1 and 2 were shot, not blown up. I admit that for a long time I thought they were sitting in the vehicle and got blown up by the rpg (and it's cooler), but that was not the case. --William (talk) 04:44, June 15, 2015 (UTC) ::::Let's just call them performers like we do with some of the categories until we can figure out who played who and be more specific (Blown up guy #1 and 2, etc.). I don't make any policies (nor do I want to, let alone am unable to) but can we get some pictures of these other agents who are supposedly Michaels but don't match up and let some other people review this episode. --Gunman6 (talk) 06:59, June 15, 2015 (UTC) ::::I'm not quite sure what you mean. Are you talking about the 4x10 Michaels? Well I just checked the episode and didn't find Greg Hutto. So it's more supportive to create another Michaels page since Greg Hutto didn't appear in season 4. ::::No agents were blown up. In the gif I uploaded, the duo by the car are agents 1 and 2, the two in the alley agents 3 and 4. --William (talk) 07:53, June 15, 2015 (UTC) :::::Alright, that's a simpler way of calling them by those names and good work on the .gif file BTW. --Gunman6 (talk) 08:55, June 15, 2015 (UTC) :::Firstly let's deal with the oou considerations about performers. Agents #3 and #4, as you pictured them above, appear purely in episode 21, and then only outside the factory. Agents #1 and #2 appear in episode 21 inside the factory, as well as episode 22 inside and outside, and get shot. The other two agents shot outside the factory in episode 22 are different performers. One of them is completely bald, which neither agent #3 or #4 are. :::Next, the agent in 4x10 is not Greg Hutto, and is not referred to as Michaels, I believe an incorrect identification is the reason he is here, so I agree with removing that. :::Lastly, the issue of the 4x21 Michaels. Although it's unlikely that guy is Greg Hutto, we have no way really of telling, and it could technically be, and in other cases like this we would match up the two CTU field agents with the same name as the same character. I guess an unknown status could possibly be used for Michaels if it's a separate character, but clearly if they're treated as the same character he would be "alive". I am little unsure, but would be in favour of keeping the two appearances of a CTU field agent "Michaels" as the same character--Acer4666 (talk) 18:18, June 15, 2015 (UTC) ::::"prep a team to scan the building" is said in the opening credits of 4x22--Acer4666 (talk) 18:27, June 15, 2015 (UTC) :::Neither agent shot in the alley is bald. You can watch it again. :::Actually Greg Hutto is bald, and if you compare his photo with the 4x21 Michaels pic i posted above, you can see that the 4x21 Michaels has hair and looks younger. --William (talk) 03:20, June 16, 2015 (UTC) ::Looks pretty bald to me. ::After seeing the higher quality version of the sniper Michaels you uploaded, I agree it's not Greg Hutto and we should split the article into 2 different characters. ::As for the unknown status, well that would rest on Michaels being the 4th, non-bald guy who got shot in the alley. I think the picture on the right shows the 4th shot guy - this is an agent who packs up a bag and leaves just before they exit the warehouse, and the 4th shot agent is also carrying a bag on his back and looks the same. However, they could've switched performers when they switched location. I doubt it's the same performer as Michaels the sniper, but it could be--Acer4666 (talk) 09:25, June 16, 2015 (UTC) :::Doesn't look bald to me. Probs the lighting that makes his head look lighter and baldy. :::To be honest, I really don't know how to deal with this agent now. It's dark, i'm not sure if the agent got shot in the alley was really the 4th agent in the previous episode; even if it was not, we don't know if they switched actors from extras to stunt performers, which means they were meant to be the same agent like Bergen and White, or were meant to be new agents arrived in the factory off-screen. It's just, annoying, with the inconsistency they kept making. --William (talk) 14:20, June 18, 2015 (UTC) ::I think on the bald issue, I've watched both shots he appears in many times and definitely think he is bald. That image you just linked above shows light shining off his head! The second shot, that you're looking at, has his head in shade so looks darker but he definitely is still bald--Acer4666 (talk) 14:54, June 18, 2015 (UTC) ::Well half of me thinks maybe you are right, but the other half still disagrees, thinking the shadow on the agent's head in the third picture in the row that linked above is hair. But even if he's bald, we can't make sure Michaels was the agent with the bag. --William (talk) 15:52, June 18, 2015 (UTC)